Between Two Shovels
The transportation podcast where infrastructure leaders explain what it really takes to build America’s roads, systems, and corridors.
Episodes
Hours of Content
Industry guests
Cost, schedule, risk, delivery
Every conversation gets specific. Mitigation rates per acre. Lead times on traffic poles. What COVID actually did to bid pricing. Numbers and trade-offs, not talking points.
Senior operators in the room
DOT chief engineers. Trucking association CEOs. Land planners. Lobbyists. Supply chain advisors. Each conversation pulls in a different vantage point on how American infrastructure gets built, from the bid sheet to the ballot box.
Made on a working corridor
Most infrastructure podcasts are produced by observers. Between Two Shovels comes from the partnership actively delivering a 34-mile regional expressway, so every guest list, every question, and every topic is shaped by people who have signed for the work themselves.
0:00 How to Win Transportation Grants and Fund Infrastructure
4:17 Stakeholder vs Public Engagement: How to Reach People Who Never Go to Public Meetings
14:51 Why Local Transportation Sales Tax Measures Fail, and What It Will Take to Pass One
22:05 Why Widening Freeways Won’t Fix Traffic: How Managed Lanes Free Up the Road
30:33 Rural Roads vs Big City Freeways: Who Gets Transportation Funding?
33:55 Should Californians Pay Per Mile Driven? The Case for a Road User Charge
40:25 How to Win Transportation Grants: Make It About People, Not Pavement
Conversations with the people building, funding, and planning American infrastructure.
A partial roster of the leaders, contractors, engineers, and operators who have sat down with the show to share what works, what doesn't, and what the numbers actually look like.
James Corless
Nancy Miller
Dave Bauer
Chris Cox
John Merchant
Travis Dodge
Eric Sauer & Chris Shimoda
The podcast is produced by the people delivering the corridor.
Between Two Shovels is a project of the Capital SouthEast Connector Joint Powers Authority, a partnership of Sacramento County, El Dorado County, Elk Grove, Folsom, and Rancho Cordova delivering a 34-mile regional expressway from Interstate 5 in Elk Grove to Highway 50 in El Dorado Hills.
The JPA was formed in 2006 with 75% voter approval. Since then, the partnership has cleared more than 20 miles through NEPA, secured 50-year regulatory permits, won a $25 million USDOT RAISE grant, and delivered 11 miles of completed expressway. The podcast exists because the lessons learned along the way deserve a wider audience than a board meeting.
Mile Expressway
Miles Completed
Member Jurisdictions
Constructed Improvements
Get every episode in your inbox, plus the back-channel notes.
Subscribe to the Between Two Shovels newsletter and we'll send a short email every time a new conversation drops. You'll also get bonus material that doesn't go anywhere else.
Have a story the industry should hear?
Between Two Shovels features leaders and operators shaping the future of infrastructure. Whether you've delivered a project, fought for funding, or learned the hard way what doesn't work, we'd like to talk. Pitch yourself, a colleague, or a topic you wish more people understood.
"The best conversations come from operators who've made calls they couldn't take back."